We Asked A Certified Sexologist Stuff We Were Too Afraid to Google

What does porn actually do to your body? Can it cause erectile dysfunction? Why is "just stop" the worst advice anyone can give? 

In this episode, Michael and Nick sit down with certified sexologist and licensed marriage and family therapist Jenny McCoy to ask the questions most men are too embarrassed to bring up — even with their doctor. 

Jenny breaks down the neuroscience of early porn exposure, why your brain can treat it as trauma as young as age 8, how shame and pleasure get locked in a cycle that's hard to escape, and what real progress actually looks like for individuals and couples. 

This isn't a scare tactic episode. It's an honest, grace-filled conversation that meets people where they are and points them toward real hope. 

If you've ever wondered whether change is actually possible — it is. And it's never too late.

Resources: 🔗 Book a free discovery call — rscky.com 

🔗 Connect with Jenny — awakencounselingky.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Hey, welcome to the Restoration Soul Care podcast, where we have honest conversations about faith, neuroscience, and hope. I'm Michael Camber, a relationship and recovery coach.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

And I'm Nick Buda, a mental health and relationship coach. If you feel stuck in shame, addiction, or pain, you don't have to face it alone. Join us for some real stories, real tools, and a real path forward. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Welcome to the Let's All Accidentally Touch Our Feet Multiple Times very quickly podcast with Nick and Jenny.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Nick, the leg toucher Buddha.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I don't have a nickname yet.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Jenny gracefully tolerating us McCoy. I'm just kidding, that's a terrible thing.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Well, I look forward to these episodes when we have somebody else on because we just sit closer. It just feels good.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Is the middle seat normally empty?

SPEAKER_04 0:57

No, there's normally not a third seat.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Michael was sandwiched last time, so.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

You drew the short straw this time.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

I'm the PB and J. The peanut butter and the jelly. Yeah. You're both. You guys are both the white bread.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

I prefer rye, but that's fine. I'm kidding. Welcome to the Restoration Soul Care Podcast. My name is Michael. This is my friend Nick. And today we have a very special guest joining us, Jenny McCoy, who is a certified sexologist. And that's where I'm going to run out of space talking because uh I didn't plan on doing an introduction. Nick, you want to say more about Jenny? You know Jenny more than I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah, we're diving right in. Uh which is awesome. I love it. Uh we're having another conversation today, acknowledging the fact that sex is very impactful to our entire being. I think we all agree on that. Uh, but specifically, we want to talk about the impact that pornography or other compulsive sexual behavior has on us and the reality of what we're discovering in that field. So we thought, who better than to invite our friend Jenny McCoy? Thank you. Jenny is a wife, a mother, uh active in our community. Uh Jenny and I happen to be a part of the same church family. Uh I consider her a friend. Is that okay? I accept. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

She probably she likes my wife a lot more than me, but uh podcast friends. Is that a new category? Podcast friends? Podcast friends.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Sure. We'll take it.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

BCFs.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Uh sorry. So uh Jenny, let's let's let's unpack this for a second. You're a licensed marriage and family therapist, so you do a lot of therapy work with couples, individuals, but you also have this additional title, like a specialization as a certified sexologist. What in the world does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

It just means I know a lot about sex and have studied a lot about sex. Uh so sexology is more research-based, study-based, uh data-based. Um, it's not actually where the interaction comes in. So I use the sexology component in marriage and family therapy by being able to educate people as I'm working one-on-one or as couples with them. Um and so I can have some extra skills and techniques and data and education uh in order to provide some backup for them to better understand what our goals are and interventions are.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

I'm guessing when a say a couple comes in or an individual comes in, you're readily open to say, Hey, I have trouble with my life, it's relational, but specifically it has to do with my sex life. And you're like, Okay, let's work through that. So it's that's a dynamic that you're actively contributing or working through.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yes. And even when they don't come to talk about sex, I make them talk about sex.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

Solid.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah. Because there's usually a component of that. Yeah. Um I think also having the educational background, um, I am better able to make people feel comfortable talking about it because people don't love coming to an office and just talking about their sex life or saying penis and vagina like it's uncomfortable. And so being able to kind of be comfortable myself gives them a sense of ease to talk about something that maybe they haven't talked about before.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah. You you've informed me too. I think um you've shared too, you have a passion for, especially among female clients, uh, in light of the story we've sometimes lived as Christians, that there's been a lot of unhelpful uh teaching and cultural dynamics around sexuality, that that's been a passion point for you. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yes, a hundred percent. Uh I grew up in the church and height of the purity culture movement, um, and only learned the bad things about sex uh or the negative narratives about sex uh were highly focused on. And I think in the purity culture movement, there were two different messages between men and women. Uh women, it was more gatekeeper, don't do this, don't do this. Men, it was a lot more, you don't have any self-control, so you gotta have someone else do it for you. Uh, and it was a lot more porn focused, too. Um, and so when couples come in, a lot of times their belief system about sex and how they've been interacting as a couple with sex has been around for years as a result of what they learned or didn't learn at church and data. I'm a data nerd.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Well, that's actually one thing I really appreciate about you because Michael and I are closet nerds as well.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Nick rip uh constantly pushes me out of the closet.

unknown 5:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Mostly in regards to Pokemon and Ninja Turtles, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Ninja Turtles.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

We can talk about sex data too. Oh, I missed out. I told you guys, listen, the only socks I own now are just Ninja Turtles.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Michael It's my birthday. Today? Today? No, it's not. It's on two days.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

We were gonna sing happy birthday, weren't we? No, you're not allowed to.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

We were. You know what to get me now.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Ninja Turtle socks?

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I only have one pair.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Of socks or ninja turtle socks? I'll let you decide on that one.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

He's wearing them today. Here's what I love about your nerd sock is because uh you're not even talking well, you're not just addressing the philosophical aspect of sexuality within relationships, but you're also very clinically and biologically informed. Yes. And the way that you work with men and women. And I know that some of what we've talked about too is when you're working with the client, some of that work is just them learning how to approach their body apart from a really toxic shame view, and just to understand how God has made us and wired us, and then also that this design for sex is a really good, beautiful thing. Yeah. And to feel the freedom to step towards it, obviously within God's terms, but at the same time acknowledge like a lot of us sometimes approach our own body and our own sexual story through just the constant limits of shame. Um, I'm gonna go right at it. You guys ready for this? Let's do it, man. Jenny. What can ongoing use of pornography really cause things like erectile dysfunction, premature climax, uh distortions and libido? Is that really true or is that just social media?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

It is very true.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Okay. Um it's a really broad question.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

It is. Here's why I ask it. And and I'll say this uh you get these kind of like scare tactic articles that are like uh and maybe let me be generous here. I think some of it's well-meaning efforts where a sweeping statement is made about certain things totally jacking you up sexually. Um but I think for the average guy too, it's like, hey, you know, I've been interacting off and on with pornography since maybe adolescence, and I'm now hearing these scare tactics, like I I'm in danger of like having a sexual dysfunction. Is that really true? And I I guess that's what I want to speak to, is like let me clarify too.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

The reason is is because we do a lot of uh discussion on like neuroscience and what's happening in the brain neurochemically. And so I think part of this conversation could be helpful to sort of take that below, like what else is happening actually in your body, not just upstairs. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yeah. So I would say A plus B does not equal C, but A plus B sometimes equals C. Okay. Like using porn doesn't mean you're going to have E D, P E, libido changes, but it can influence it. Um starting from like, let's go straight to early childhood, because you know, as my therapist side, we've got to go family voirgin and we're good with that. We're here for it. Um research is showing that the first time anybody is exposed to pornography, which on average is between eight and eleven these days, it's getting younger. Um, when that happens, our brain and body perceive that as a trauma. Because we are not at an age capable of processing what we've seen. Now, that doesn't mean we're viewing it sexually, uh, because at age eight, a lot of us aren't thinking sexually. Right. Um, but our brain and body still perceive that as a trauma. Most people, most kids, when they're eight to eleven and see porn for the first time, don't tell anybody. Um, not necessarily because they're trying to hide it, but because they don't realize that they've just experienced a trauma. Yeah. And so as we're aging, we're carrying around this initial trauma, often with additional traumas, whether it be porn related or otherwise, added to it. And we're taking all of that into adulthood, having never addressed, explored, resolved any of it. So we're already carrying trauma, sexual trauma into our life before we may even have a sexual experience. So we have that going against us already, right? It's one problem to add to our plethora of problems we end up with by adult.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Just for the the super average person out there, when you say it processes it as a trauma, what do you mean by that? Like what is actually happening in our brain body specifically with a a very early exposure to pornography?

SPEAKER_01 10:31

So what typically ends up happening because we don't process it is we suppress it. And so that can come out uh physically, and you know, we may start to have physical symptoms of like increased heart rate or aches or pains, uh gut issues. So you're gonna have those kinds of concerns. Then you have the mental-emotional component where oftentimes you may begin to respond just a little differently. You may see a little difference in someone's way of approaching someone else or turning inside themselves when they used to be really social. Um, that doesn't last forever. Um, but you oftentimes if when people find out, oh, that my kid had this experience then, parents can look back and be like, oh, I do remember there may have even just been a couple days they were they showed up different. Uh and so even relationally they approach different. There is an interior shame and guilt because they, you know, you're gonna have this physiological response to what you've experienced, but at that age you don't know how to process it. And so you're going to be trying to internalize that, and so often you just are like, I don't know what to do, so I'm just going to pretend it didn't happen. Sure. But it doesn't go away. Yeah. That'd be great. We wouldn't have jobs, but it'd be great. Yeah. Um, so it ends up festering, and then you start having more cognitive symptoms. And I think the other component is depending on your age, you may have a positive response to it. You may have an arousal response to it. And if you don't process that with someone in a healthy manner, you either have shame about that, or man, I just got that first feeling of that neurotransmitter dopamine giving me some pleasure. And what what does this mean? And I want that again. And so from a very early onset, you can experience that pleasure, not even knowing sexually that that was the goal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but then that often is when people start forming uh dependence or addiction or the drive for more.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

I'm curious, uh, and maybe this is a terrible question, but I'm gonna ask it and see where we get. Let's say uh, for example, somebody's exposed to something when they're in that age, eight or nine, and then they shut down, ignore it, I don't know what that was. And then let's say a couple years later, maybe they go through puberty puberty and then uh there's uh a re like engagement toward pornography. Like what and maybe this is too broad of a question, but like what might be going on or one day they wake up and go, Oh, I'm starting to notice things sexually about other people. Uh let me go back to this thing that terrified the heck out of me when I was younger and explore that. Does that make sense what I'm asking?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah, I think they know that they had a response to it. And because it because they haven't processed it, like they're still going to remember it even if a little more subconsciously. And so they're going to be able to associate the current feeling to the past feeling. And a lot of it ends up being just curiosity, not actually, oh, I want this. Uh most people who look at porn for the first time aren't doing it out of seeking it out. It's either curiosity or they stumble upon it. Yeah. And so if you have these sudden, you know, physiological responses, um, especially with puberty onset, it's gonna make sense that you want to explore out of curiosity, not because right or wrong, not there's no shame then. Our culture kind of creates the shame on its own. A lot of what is initially stumbled upon in childhood, we that we as adults or society would view as shame is really curiosity, and then it is taken on as shame because we assign that to it.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

What you stop me if we're if I'm getting off track here. I've I'm gonna follow up. You fire away, man. So I'm I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Were these on my notes? They're not on your pizza. Uh we're in line.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

But at any point you can say plead the fifth. You don't have to answer any of my questions. Uh or you can just dumbwell me, just awkwardly stare at me. Or you can ask about the teenage mutant ninja turtles. Or yeah, we can pivot to great.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

I just know they like pizza.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

They do like pizza. Oh boy, do they. Uh it's all kinds of nutritional deficiencies in that conversation, but they do like pizza. Uh what what happens internally to maybe our nervous systems or our neurochemistry even when some of these things get uh sort of bound up together in our system. So trauma, shame, um, curiosity. Because those things like they don't happen independent of each other. Like they happen, they occur, and then they grow and fester in our systems. Like what it's all jumbled together. It's all jumbled together.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, it kind of becomes an internal battle. Uh and again, I think one of the biggest concerns that we see come up in therapy is that it's there go my notes. So good thing you don't have any questions. Um one of the biggest things that show up in therapy is that someone has experienced that jumbling of emotions and never processed it or never communicated it with anyone that could help them process it. And so none of them get resolved, none of those emotions. Um, and some of them support each other, the emotion. Some of the emotions counteract each other, and so you go back and forth. And I think that really um describes what can end up being the addiction cycle, like because you have this pleasure and that motivates you to do it. And then you have this shame that follows the pleasure, uh, and so that's a negative emotion. So then you're looking for the positive emotion again. So we go back to, well, I know I know how this feels, so I'm gonna do it again, even if I know next comes the shame. Yeah. Uh so I think they do become so interwoven that uh it just becomes a cycle of emotional responses because you've not ever really said, okay, I think I really need to focus on the shame part. I think you really need to focus on the pleasure part. That you know, we don't do things that don't serve us. So we're getting something from it, or we wouldn't keep doing it, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Right. Sounds like the makings of a compulsive behavior. 100%. Well, 100% interesting. Taking a step back, this is what this whole conversation reminds me is like uh let's put our own worldview here. So biblically, we believe that God has created every person with a sexual drive. Or let me say that differently, that sexuality is a key part of their being. Um, and so to go then a step further is to say that that is not just uh fully pre-programmed at birth. A lot of our approach to sexuality, mentally, physically, emotionally, um, is formed through our our lived experience of our story. Um, and that can either be a really healthy thing or a really unhealthy thing. And when you talk about it just being this kind of like mixed bag, that's like I don't know what the heck. Like, there's a lot going on when I think about sexuality. Part of it wants to make me like hide and avoid it. Part of me is like, man, I'm super drawn to it, and it's just all over the place. And I guess what I'm getting at too is I feel for a lot of people, men and women, who have been born and raised in our current cultural dynamic, where again, something that's becoming more consistent is in very early exposure to whether it be pornography or I would say very aggressive sexual dynamics, right? So that in and of itself is confusing, uh especially for a child. And then too, we're thrust into a culture where um goodness, there's almost a shameless approach to sexuality. Um, and this is very true with Michael and I both have young kids, but like you don't even have to get to middle school before like the sexual level of joking, conversations, references are just like off the charts. Let alone, you know, statistically they're saying too, if you leave high school now and are not exposed to pornography, you're in the the vast minority. Um so I I'm putting all that together to say, wow, like I just really feel for young people and also for a lot of people whose stories that they maybe tend to believe, like, man, I must be really unique and jacked up because sex is confusing to me, it's a struggle for me. When in reality, it's like, no, actually, like there's a you're speaking for a lot of people who feel this.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

And I think too, if you think of our kids' ages, um who are they being raised by? They're being raised by the products of purity culture from the church. True. And so Yeah, do better, Nick. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

I'm trying.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

I've got some time for a session after this.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Um please do that right now on camera.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So, you know, you have you're trying to teach your kids hex sex healthy sexuality when you weren't taught half healthy sexuality. And when often you haven't come to a place yourself of healthy sexuality. And so we're teaching our kids from our own brokenness. That's in all areas of life. Like, I've already started a therapy fund for my son because I know he's gonna need it. I must do something, right? Um, to screw him up. But like it's important to note like where we fall short and what we're sharing that may be out of our own brokenness, not health. And even as Christians showing up um in a uh a secular culture that is shameless, um, I think the opposite of that, a lot of what we grew up with and a lot of churches still uh produce is shame-filled. So like there's no there's no health there. It's there it just seems to still be extremes in a lot of instances. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Let's go in a little bit more specific too. So like I think what Michael and I have talked about too is this idea that we're permeable. So again, we are affected by our lived experiences and the things that we're downloading often uh subconsciously, or just like it's playing in the background. Um from what I'm understanding, and I want you to correct me, is like our let's just use the term sexual template and all that's involved in that. Our view of sex, our approach to sex, our emotions associated with it, what we get aroused by, um, what's desirable for us. Um some of that's just within us, but then some of it's forming and being uh impacted by what we're going through. Um is that part of the I just hit the mic.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

I've done that like three times. Is part of the need to edit it out or something. Animals.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Yeah, that's the one thing I can't edit out. Oh shoot.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

That's I think of the idea of conditioning, okay? Yeah, yeah. Right. So, like even Pavlov's dog. Is that also true? For sexual, like our sexual drive and our arousal, and um you know, because I'm I'm thinking of the person, we just threw out big, you know, horrible things like, oh, like am I gonna get ED erectile dysfunction or r wrestle with premature climax or you fill in the blank. Um but is some of that dynamic more impacted by conditioning, or does it seem more random to your clients?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Um are the conditions random? Is that what you're asking?

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Is the result like some of the struggles that some people have come to you with?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

I think it's the whole uh you can go back to the basic psychology of nature nurture, and I think it's a combination. Um and so many extra factors too. Even medication can impact PE and ED. Uh, but we definitely see a positive correlation with increased uh P premature ejaculation and erectile dysfunction and decreased libido in a relationship. I think that's a key component. Your libido is not necessarily lower, your libido towards human beings is lower.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah. Um, and so we definitely see that in correlation with increased porn use. Yeah. Um and the nice thing about conditioning though, and this is where people are like, oh man, like I like I've been looking at this and now this is who I am. If we can condition you to become that way, we can condition you to change. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Like it's neuroplasticity is our favorite thing. Your brain's moldable.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Instead of being like, oh, well, too late now, yeah, or feeling hopeless about it, like that should, if anything, give you more hope. Yeah. That, hey, I didn't start out like this. I don't have to stay like this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Yeah. That that I'm glad you said that. This is one thing, and I hope all of my clients are listening to this right now. Or well, by the time to say yours right now.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Gotta get on it.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Right now. But I try to like get them to understand this early on that um compulsive pornography use is a rehearsed behavior, and it gets reinforced because you keep rehearsing it. And oftentimes the pathway out of that is rehearsing your way out of it. So, how do we form new habits, new rituals, so that we give our brain new, you know, if you think about driving down a freeway, new and different and more consistent off-ramps rather than you know, if we continue in pornography use, it sort of like tightens the guardrails. It's like, well, now you're down to one lane and you can't go anywhere, it's just porn.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

And it's one way. It's one way street.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

As we're wrapping up with time, can we talk to the individual or the couple that's like, all right, Jenny, hot take again, uh porn is either part of one of our stories or both, and we're trying to figure out right now what's the best first step. Um they come into your office. What what's the big picture things? Or what would you just embrace them with initially as they come to terms with that?

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Well, one grace. Um, it's it's very easy, you know, there's the betrayal, the feeling of betrayal uh for the betrayed partner. Um but again, and I'm not trying to sound like I'm just throwing the church under the bus at every at every step.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

No, we're we're pro-church.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

We are. We are. Um but I do think that sexual sins have had this. Sorry, my I'm going dry here. You're okay. Would you like some water? I'm good. Sexual sin has had uh so much more heaviness than other sins. And going into marriage, um, when we've grown up in the church, it carries a heaviness um that can make it feel like an uphill battle uh and can make it feel so much more significant that, okay, yeah, I got issues, but look at you, like we've gotta focus on this and we've gotta heal this, and it's like a now or never type thing. And so I I often think, you know, when we go straight into feeling that heaviness, it feels more hopeless. Um, and it feels more me against you, and I'm the problem, and you've gotta fix this and you have to do this, versus uh approaching it from a team effort and uh with grace that like the Lord gives us, we often give ourselves and our partners way less grace than the Lord gives us, right? Um I'm guilty of that myself. So like it's it's natural, it's our sinful nature. But I think if we can get back to the grace-filled aspect, we're not as hard on ourselves. Um and when I see that that grace be accepted and that shame decrease, a lot of the problems start to resolve more easily because you're you're interrupting one thing in that cycle, and that's that shame component. You know, we had talked about the mixed bag inside of emotions. If we can interrupt just one thing, do one thing differently, the same impact's not gonna happen. We're not gonna have the same result. And so just doing one little thing differently can give you a feeling of a win, W-I-N win, um, and that can give you motivation to do more. Uh, and so oftentimes it's not okay, go cold turkey. No, it's okay, I want you when you want to look at porn, set a timer for five minutes. Don't look at porn for that five minutes. If you still have that urge, okay. Now people get look at me really crazy when I say that. Because they're like, well, shouldn't I just not be looking at it at all? Yeah, that's the end goal. But if we can get you a win when your brain learns, oh, like I can wait five minutes to look at it, I don't have to have it right now, I can have delayed gratification, just that one step gives them the motivation and encouragement that, oh, if I can do that, I can wait 10 minutes. Um and then once we calm your brain down so that it learns to that there are off-ramps, okay, here's an off-ramp to go take a walk, here's an off-ramp to call a friend, here's an off-ramp to drink a sweet tea, not that I'm encouraging one addiction to the next. Um but like, okay, now my brain can consider an alternative. Yeah. Uh and that's where we typically see progress being made and some of that hopefulness come back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

Progress, not perfection.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Oftentimes when we I love that you said that, by the way, because one of the things that we talk about pretty often is like that like if you've been in church, like we have one category for this, sin, and we have a response that we typically have to sin. Stop.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

And like for most things, maybe you would say that, like, okay, you can probably quit a lot of things cold turkey or stop, you know, talking people rudely or things like that, whatever you want to classify. But when it comes to pornography, there's a lot of stuff happening under the surface, neurologically, physiologically, that's not just like I can just cold turkey stop. And so we're not advocating for porn news. What we are saying is and I didn't hear you say that by the way. Yeah, um what we are saying is that we're looking for progress, not perfection, because a little bit of progress moves you toward the path of significant change. And the beauty of it is that God knows us deeply and he understands that and that's what grace is for. Not abusing it like Paul warns us against, but living fully into it to say God's grace is here, it's expansive, it's deeper than I could ever exhaust it. Let me rest in that so that I can keep working toward the thing that I want to get away from.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah. And he knows he knows our heart and he knows our motivation. Yeah. Um, and that's something I think the relationship component we often uh fail to acknowledge when we're trying to make progress on anything. Yeah. Uh, and so remembering and reminding ourselves like he knows our motivation. He knows our motivation is to, you know, have full sobriety from this at some point. Um and he also knows we may not be perfect, which is why he sent Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Bingo. Yeah, I always remind people too. Like the idea of sanctification, which is this slow process, that's often it is, it's a lifetime. That's God's idea. You know, like he even created uh the idea that like we don't get uh turned perfectly into Jesus in an event. It's a really messy struggle, a process. And uh man, if if I can't be down with that, then that says something about my own orientation of like, well, God's that's God's idea. So why can't I extend that to either myself or others? Um yeah, and what I'm hearing too is like some of hope or or some of how hope is robbed with an individual or a couple is one, they treat this struggle as this like permanent scarlet thread that's like, well, I of all things, like we got sex struggles or we got porn use in our story, so we're jacked. And you're saying, no. Uh that could be probably downloaded from some really unhelpful resources. I see the enemy at work there, just saying, we'll just keep you locked in that shame mode. And the same with the individual too. It's like, man, I've been struggling for this for 10, 20 years, it's never gonna change. Bull crap. Like I think Jenny would say, I think we would say, we see guys making often progress when when they're putting the effort into it a lot quicker than they even thought.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah. I have 60, 70 year olds come in the office, and I'm always like super proud of them because I know it is not comfortable for them to be approaching for help or talking to a younger female about it.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Um and I'm guessing for those people too, they have a story of where this they've invested probably decades of this pattern in their life, and they're still coming and saying, hey, maybe change and hope is possible.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they may have either not realized it was a problem before, or someone told them it was a problem and they needed help now, or they've gone through periods of changing the behavior.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Um, and then wondering why, oh man, the behavior change alone. Shoot, that didn't work. Yeah. We're back at it. And so I'm always really proud of them for coming in and not saying like, well, you know, I'm 65, 70 years old now. I guess this is just my lifelong struggle, and are still willing to try something new and put in the work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah. That's great. Well, if you could say one final thing to the listener, we always try to give our guests an opportunity to say that. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Well, we didn't even get into this topic, but porn is not reality. Um having a sexual experience with a human being and having uh pleasure and arousal and orgasm from viewing pornography is not one and the same. Uh, and the more exposure we have to pornography, the one more discontent we're gonna be with interactive sex with a human being. And two, the less fulfilling that interactive sex is gonna be because we have expectations of it that aren't reality based on emotional, mental, biological, gender difference components and the sh sheer fact that it's a performance.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Um we tend to forget that. And so when couples come in, one of the biggest things I see is this discontentment and the sexual relationship. And very often it is because their partner is not initiating, responding, performing, having it freak as frequently as they witnessed in porn. Yeah. Um, and so no different than watching the notebook and wondering why your spouse isn't like, you complete me, you know, that's a different movie. Um You're not required. It's the same concept with pornography. Like it's not, it's not real. And so you you miss a good part, and that's I think where my sexology comes into play in practice, is you miss a good part of like biologically, the different response cycles of men versus women, um, uh libido discrepancies, like so many components that come into play that if we if porn has been our educator and that has formed our expectations of our sex life, it's not gonna meet reality. It's incapable of it.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

Yeah. That's great. Uh that sounds like a part two if I've ever heard one. So of a 10-part series. Yeah. Only 10? Um I was gonna say, well no, you go ahead. I was just gonna tell Jenny thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Oh, you're welcome. Jenny.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

I I was gonna talk to that person listening. You can talk to them.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Oh, I don't think I've I've kind of forgotten the cameras were there. I was staring at you the whole time. That's all. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Thank you for asking for permission, though, because I am in charge of the cameras. Yeah, you are. You can you can talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Hey, I'm Nick. Uh if you resonate with this this conversation at all in terms of and even what Jenny just said, which is like part of you is just not okay with this artificial world I've been living in. Like it's it's taking more than it's giving. I want more. If that resonates with you, I think that's what Michael and I and Jenny are here for, is to say we want to help you with more, like to come into the light and to experience the beauty of living on God's terms, but also the beauty of this design of sexuality. So that's why we would say if you want to reach out to Michael or I, RSc KY.com. Jenny, do you have a something that you could awaken counselingky.com. Boom. Easy. Awaken counseling KY. We both use Kentucky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Awaken counseling was already taken.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

We have a closing tradition. Uh we always always encourage people to don't do this alone. So we say don't do this alone on three. Three. Don't do this alone.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Oh, we didn't count.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

You tricked us. I didn't know it's a curveball. Sorry. One, two, three. Don't do this alone. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next time. Later. Hey, thanks for joining us today. If you found this helpful, do us a huge favor and subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. Or, better yet, send this to someone who needs encouragement.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

For more tools, resources, and information about our coaching, check out rstky.com. Keep showing up. Yeah, we'll catch you next time.