Why Do I Keep Relapsing With Porn Even When I Say I'm Sorry?

You've said you're sorry. You've prayed. You've promised yourself you won't go back. And then you did. Again. If you keep relapsing even when you mean it when you say you're sorry, the problem isn't that you didn't try hard enough. The problem is that what you think repentance is might not actually be repentance at all. Michael and Nick walk through the difference between regret and remorse, rationalization and reliance—and what true repentance actually looks like for Christian men trying to quit porn. You'll learn why behavior change without relational repair is just another form of isolation, and why connection, not perfection, is the path forward.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Hey, welcome to the Restoration Skull Care Podcast, where we have honest conversations about faith, neuroscience, and hope. I'm Michael Camper, a relationship and recovery coach.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And I'm Nick Buda, a mental health and relationship coach. If you feel stuck in shame, addiction, or pain, you don't have to face it alone. Join us for some real stories, real tools, and a real path forward. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Welcome back to the Restoration Soul Care podcast. My name is Michael Camber. I am Nick Buddha. Together, we do a lot of awesome work. Yeah, I was waiting for some reference and I was gonna are we like fusing.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Mighty Morphin Power Ranger style?

SPEAKER_04 0:50

No.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

If you are viewing this on YouTube, you'll notice an update to our set. We were pretty excited about it. Yeah, we didn't do it.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

We don't have responsibility for it. We just came in and it was like this. And we are pleased. Milking it. Thank you all. Thank you. We're back. Uh just let me just share a couple of things that are that go on behind the scenes that maybe you aren't privy to. Maybe you are. Uh one, I want to ask for your prayer as we continue to do this work because it it is labor intensive and it is something that Nick and I enjoy very much, but boy, does it uh require a lot from us, and we are grateful for the work and we are grateful to be able to do the work. But uh what you're getting today is the second full recording of an episode that we already filmed once last week, and uh due to a lot of we'll say technical issues between more failing hard drives that replaced other failed hard drives from weeks ago it's just it's felt like okay, now it feels like we're we're moving past beyond like, oh, look what happened by accident with a piece of technical hardware. It's like ah you know, I my prayer right before we turn the cameras on was that uh God be with us and that key he would keep the enemy away because it feels like we're doing some important work here and uh just a reminder that we aren't in a battle against flesh and blood and technology, we're in a battle against um the evil one. So uh uh if you have time, please pray pray for us, join us in prayer as we continue to move forward and courageously do this, even though boy is it rough sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, this is a passion project for us, and we try to let people know there's like no monetization of this podcast except for us, namely Michael, investing into it so we can uh just share the incredible things that God and others have taught us in this journey. So yeah. So here we are.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Praying it'll all record. I quadruple checked it, and if it doesn't work, nobody will know that because you'll never see it. Yeah, that's right. And it'll be part three. It'll be part three. Well, the last time that we got an episode out into the world, it was about sin. What is sin? How do we define it? And what does it actually look like? And we talked around the idea of repentance because they're connected, and that's what we're coming back to today. We're gonna talk about what does true repentance actually look like, what can it look like on the journey of recovery?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, I loved your title for last episode, which was You know, this struggle is not ultimately a lust problem, it's a trust problem. And we presented to you the idea from scripture, not our own understanding, but clearly from scripture, that sin is ultimately defined as a a breakdown of relationship. Yeah. So it's define it again, Michael, as you did in the last episode. Sin is what?

SPEAKER_04 3:47

Yeah, living in a state of mistrust.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah. I think you also said like reactive. Reactive, that would not like. Hold on, I left a word out. Yeah, live in a state of reactive mistrust. Go listen to the episode. It's so worth it. It's actually fairly short, too. So pretty simple, worth the time. Listen, watch. We wanted to put a part two to it because it's like, great, this is what sin is, and I I can imagine for the person listening, it's like, okay, doesn't help me anymore. I sure I can understand what's going wrong, but still I'm left with it's going wrong. So what can I do? Uh what's beautiful about what we want to present today is uh Jesus coming into the world is not just saying, Hey, can I just clarify how jacked up this is? But actually the gospel message is uh repent and believe in the gospel. So this idea of repentance uh carries this information like sin can be conquered. It doesn't have to have this the final say that what Jesus did on the cross and also his love for us um is more powerful than even the most crippling, reactive mistrust issues that we have. And it can break those things down and allow us to walk in freedom and newness of life, as scripture says. So we want to we want to make that a little bit more simpler today, I hope. Um same thing we did last episode. Let's talk a little bit about what often repentance brings up, that idea, um, before we kind of just dive into what we've learned and explored. Um I'll tell you, it's some of the same residue that what we talked about with sin, which is I think sometimes uh when repentance is talked about, it's almost this very vague, heavy-handed message that basically, as we've joked about, boils down to stop it. Quit it. You just need to stop. Yeah, it's wrong, don't you know it's wrong? Like, do better. And man, is that discouraging for so many, specifically guys and girls in this issue, because it's like, you don't think I've tried, I haven't been trying to stop. Right. Um, and we want to acknowledge that. Like, repentance is actually it is hard. Very, it's it's actually, I would argue, biblically impossible to do on your own. Uh, we'll get into that in a second, but uh it's not um I I think of the words actually from Deuteronomy, um when God was talking about the um a new heart, like you cannot use God's law to be a basis to change. Like the best that the law can do is be like a diagnostic, like, yep, I failed there. And if you try to just use the information of the law, what's wrong, to accomplish, well, I'm gonna do better, I'm gonna check more boxes this time. It'll never happen. Yeah. But when God was looking forward to Jesus and he talked about this new heart that he would give us, he said it's not so far up to heaven that you have to like cross this impossible spiritual barrier to get this thing, it's actually near you and it will soon be in you. Speaking of Jesus' work in the Holy Spirit. So repentance is uh not this big lofty idea, but it's also not this big uh oppressive like self-effort phrase, too. What would you add to that? What what was repentance like for you earlier in your journey of being a follower of Jesus or in recovery?

SPEAKER_04 7:27

Yeah. Uh basically just saying you're sorry and meaning it. Right. Whatever that means. So uh having a a contrite heart, I think is some language that got thrown around it, and there's some scripture that goes behind that, which is fine. Sure. Uh but yeah, it basically boiled down to you're sorry. And the evidence of that you truly being sorry is that you won't do it anymore. Yeah. And if you keep going back and you keep doing it, well, you weren't really sorry, you weren't really repentant, so you screwed up and you must have done something wrong. So if only it was that linear. If only it were that linear.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah. Good news, guys, it's not. Uh you look at the best people in scripture, and repentance is actually not this uh switch that's flipped in one moment, and then perfectly you're living in Christ-likeness. Yeah. Uh it's a journey. Well, let's dive into it with the time that we have. Um also forgive me, you're all allergies are hitting me. It is fully May in Louisville, and things are blossoming, including my eyes and my sinuses.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

Yeah. Thankfully, these fake plants aren't blossoming, even though look at this guy. There's a little fake blossom.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I actually thought this one was real. Fair not. So we were going to whiteboard this, we were going to iPad it with an app. I think it's just best that we describe this, this kind of progression, this journey. Uh, I'd like to start with if you can mentally picture a big like blh. Uh sometimes when I draw this out for clients, I just make a huge like scribble cloud, and I'm like, this is sin. Okay. So this is whatever messiness, whatever heaviness, whatever brokenness you want to put there. Could be something small, like, man, I wasn't, I didn't follow up with my word. Uh I was deceptive, or um not deceptive, but uh I wasn't faithful. Yeah. Or something big, like the blah could be, man, I keep going back to porn, and it's been like years and years and years. In that moment, I've learned when we have an awareness of sin, uh that's where we talk about emotions like guilt or shame, and there's also distortions of those. If you can imagine it, in that blah space, you really have one of two choices. It's like a fork in the road. And the first step towards each path. So if you looked at like the fork, there's a step maybe to the left, there's a step to the right. Just for the sake of listeners, let's say the step to the right is the right one that we want to go towards, and the step to the left is is a variance, and that's not a knock to left-handed people, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Do you have any left-handed people in your family?

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Any South Paws?

SPEAKER_04 10:18

Oh, well, I have I know some left-handed people.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

I have no left-handed people in my family.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

My immediate family. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. We pray for them. We pray for them, yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. Do you know there's a higher intelligence among left-handed people? That's something the left that's left-handed propaganda. That's not true. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Okay. Uh left and right path. Uh both of them result in a uh an uncomfortable state. So on the right path, let's differentiate. I call that remorse, and on the the left path, I call that regret. Yeah. When you just hear those two words, uh, what comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_04 10:58

Yeah. Well, they're two very different things. Regret sort of says, Um, I'm sorry I got caught. There's regret over the consequences, not necessarily my actions. Yeah. I think remorse is uh sort of reverses that I'm remorseful over my actions, right? It's internally directed, and I can also be remorseful about the consequences or the effect of my actions, right? Yeah. Rather than the other one, is I think more concerned with yeah, uh like I I got caught. I like I'm not interested in changing my behavior or what happened. I'm interested in the con I'm more concerned with avoiding the negative consequences. Yeah. More so than actually uh affecting like heart change toward actually doing the right thing. Yeah, that's such a good description.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Uh you'll notice as we describe these paths, Michael and I r describe these two avenues as the left path, this kind of uh non-repentant path, is ultimately defined by self-preservation. So it's it's more inward focus or self-focus, I should say, not necessarily inward. Inward's good. Uh reflection is good, but it's it's not ultimately uh based in what the right path is, which is relationship. Yeah. Which you want to come back to that principle. And I'll tell you, like for guys initially, um when they land in that first step on each path, it's kind of hard initially to flesh out which one it is because both are like, oh, I I feel the weight of my sin. Does that make sense? So like even when guys come into our clients come into our office, I should say, not just guys, um, we we experience them not okay with their struggle. Yeah. But I think I don't want to speak for you, but I'm also listening for what is that discomfort centered around, or what is that that pain or that um yeah, that state being fueled by? What's the perspective? Because like you said, it's very different to have I regret say let's let's make it even more generous. Not even that I was caught, but I regret that this is a struggle in my life, but I don't see necessarily necessarily the the brokenness of it. Yeah. Or I regret that I hurt my spouse. Yes, good, but it's that's good.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Whereas remorse is and and sometimes it just takes it does take a season of inward reflection of like um I always think of the like threefold of relationship, uh like up in and out. Like the remorse is Lord, I've s I've forsaken you, uh, and that's heavy to me. Uh inward, like I've I've sinned against my own self and my body, my convictions, compromise my own integrity, and then outward, I've if I'm married, I've goodness, you you choose the words, but uh you could say I've been unfaithful to my wife, dishonored her, I've violated a space of trust and intimacy. Um, and you can go on. I know sometimes your own thoughts can get heavy in that space, but if it is remorse, it's not just for the sake of beating yourself up, it's almost like uh an accurate awareness of that sin, of seeing it for what it really is. And I would argue to you uh the good news is that is a gift from God. Yeah. To to begin to see your sin uh for what it is.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Yeah, a lot of a lot of this work is uh trying to put yourself in a place to see things as God sees them. Yeah. Not so that you can abdicate responsibility for things, but so that you can have a right view of whatever the thing is. Like the the best, most appropriate view of sin is the way that God views sin, right? We have a distorted view with sin sometimes. God's view is the right view. Um if we want to have uh a right, good view of recovery, well, what's God's view of recovery, right? Same thing. If we want to have a good right view of marriage, what's God's view of marriage? All the things. So uh also what I want to say is in terms of self too, if we want to have a right view of self, we have to ask and look at, well, how does God think of me? What does God see when he sees me? And like we sort of we we've talked about this for a while, that's sort of the foundation for all of recovery work, because if you don't believe that God is for you, you're gonna have a really hard time sticking with this because it's not easy. And if your conclusion is that, well, I'm a piece of crap, I don't deserve uh recovery or to to get out of this thing, then you probably won't. Yeah. Because you'll get slogged down in it.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

So Oh, can I read you a can I read you a quote? Please. Uh we have a really great friend named Jack. He's been cited on this episode before. JB. That's right. Uh I gotta find it. But I remember in my own healing journey, he made up he made this principle of like he said, Nick, actually to to double down in your awareness of sin that God really loves you is actually really important. Yeah um what you just said reminded me of that fact. And goodness, I let me just here's the quote. Uh, this is from Charles Spurgeon, our favorite uh pipe smoking pastor. Great guy. Okay, so bear with me. Let me read this. He said, While I regarded God as a tyrant, and let me embellish that for a second. So like this black robe deity that's like, do the right thing, and you better check off the list, or else, or else. Or else. So he said, While I regarded God as a tyrant, I thought my sin as trifle. But when I knew him to be my father, then I mourned that I could ever have kicked against him. When I thought God was hard, I found it easy to sin. But when I found God to be so kind, so good, so overflowing with compassion, I smote upon my chest to think I could have ever rebelled against the one who loved me so.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

I'm like Woo Can you interpret that for non-tolkien readers?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

My remorse, I would say, my ability to sit in healthy remorse is incredibly tied upon how I see God. And so if my my understanding of and my relationship with God is this school principal uh harsh rule keeping task manager, uh it's gonna be easier for me to slip into regret, which is like, oh yeah, I screwed up again. Like, ugh. Uh but then here's the difference. When God is my father, when when my identity is is first and foremost, like regardless of my performance, regardless of how jacked up I am, I I trust him that he really just deeply loves me. Yeah, you talked about not only does he he love me, but he delights in me. He likes you, like he really does. Um, and when I start to see my sin, my struggle through that relationship, goodness, it changes the game of how I see my behavior. Yeah. And that's that's a that's a good thing, it's a beautiful thing. So take that for what it is. Maybe the encouragement for you guys is just to do a self-check. Like, how how do I see the Lord in the midst of my struggle? Yeah. Um, is it this guy who's just I'm so frustrated, I'm done with him? Or is it a father who's near and is hurting with you and opening his arms to you and saying, Oh, my son or my daughter? Uh man, that's that's a big difference. So, and actually, in light of this, just to double down on it, we talked about this in the last time we tried to record this. I love David's words. So, David really had this beautiful relationship with the Lord that was intimate, you know, writing songs to him and experiencing him in ways that, you know, I think of passages where he's just so excited when they brought the Ark of the Covenant into the temple, and he like basically goes down to his underwear because he just wants to dance. He's so excited about the Lord's presence. Uh, that's the kind of relationship David had, and yet he also deeply struggled. So when he had his whole incredible uh breakdown, moral breakdown of sleeping with Bathsheba, committing adultery, and then trying to cover it up and lie about it and compromising the kingdom. Whoa! Uh, he in a state of remorse wrote Psalm 51 and he said the words, God, against you only have I sinned. Yeah. And we talked about the fact if David was trying to make a theological statement, he would have been wrong. Because obviously he sinned against a lot of people. A Bathsheba and Uriah, obviously, but against his own people. But what he was speaking from is from the heart. Yeah. He's like, God, above all people, you have so much so much love. How could I have done this against you? It like, yeah, let me add here a little bit my own interpretation or maybe just thoughts on David's thoughts. What b David is probably saying is, I know I've sinned against other people, I know I've done things wrong, but God, above it all, like I'm just overwhelmed by you. I've sinned against you. Uh, and that's man, that's a really good picture of remorse. Yeah. Okay. That's step one. Step one. Left path, right path. Can kind of look similar. On the left side, we got regret. On the right side, we have remorse. But here's really where it uh shows itself what's going on. If it's regret, if it's kind of like this self-preservation state, here's what will ultimately happen is the next R word is rationalization. And well, let me just ask you, Michael, have you seen rationalization kind of manifest itself in a person who's not actually repenting but more just like doing the whole self-preservation path?

SPEAKER_04 21:47

I think you and I can both pick up on this pretty quick when we when we meet with when we meet with people. If there is the sense of uh of humility or they recognize that something needs to change. You get that they're in for the long haul because they they're after that change, because that change is going to be their responsibility. They're they need they need to work on that change for themselves independently of this keeps me in my marriage or or whatever else. Um the other thing is when guys show up and you can see them, and this has happened so many times the first session or even the second session sometimes, where they will talk themselves in circles and they'll justify what they did, or they'll convince themselves it's not really that big of a deal, it's just a little porn. Why is she so bent out of shape about it? I didn't cheat on her. Yeah. And like all these things where they try to essentially justify their actions, or they try to downplay like, well, it wasn't that big of a deal. And that's the rationalization behind it that I could probably just keep doing this and things would just be okay. Because life didn't really blow up that bad, she didn't leave, yeah, she's upset, she's been upset before. Like, things are still okay, and there's not like a real grasp on the weight of of what's actually happening. Yeah. And so there's uh yeah, again, there's this like circular reasoning, this justification of like, yeah, this this happened. I I can I can survive this. I don't I don't actually need help.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

You know how I've seen it in recovery groups, and I bet you can resonate with this, is not even necessarily in that uh that level of defensiveness, I should say. I've seen rationalization be really subtle and and almost appear um acceptable, and and here's what it looks like. Guys that we've worked with in recovery group settings, so we're meeting with them every week and and processing through these things. I see rationalization as just not taking it seriously. Yeah. So it's it's not even like, oh, you know, I'm I'm deflecting or I'm defending myself. It's like, oh yeah, well, I know I know it's bad, and I really want this to change in my life. But after, you know, we meet for group or in between the days that we have assignments or something, it's just like but it's not that important. And so rationalization can be really like outward and oh, you know, it's it's because of this and this and and not owning it that way. But also when uh we just don't take sin seriously, yeah. And just like, you know what? Yeah, well, like I'm not gonna put any filtering stuff on my phone, or you know, I'm not actually gonna fully tell somebody because I just don't really like I don't really want to fully deal with it.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

I don't need to write out the exercises, I don't need to do the assignments, I don't really need to check in. Like it'll it'll just stop someday.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah, it'll quit. I'll quit. And so that that's almost the the subtle way of rationalizing, hey, it's not a big deal. And so, man, that's that's the space I I worry most for guys because I can't make them want it. I know that's something the Lord has to do in them, and then they move forward it's super defensive or elevated or something really subtle. I think the proof is in the pudding in terms of uh I I don't want to see this as a a cancer that is infecting my and destroying my relationship with the Lord, with myself. Um I I think about this book, uh Jerry Bridges is a guy uh who's written a lot of just really great uh reflection. He wrote a book called Respectable Sins, and that's this idea that I get of uh like I can still kind of keep it close, and that's okay. And that's what scares me a lot for guys, is uh we've talked about these principles from Ephesians and even the the standard that Jesus has for us, which is like his words is be willing to cut off your right hand or gouge out your right eye. Um meaning go to the uttermost length to do battle against this sin. And the reason for that is not just hey, you gotta do this to try harder, it's because it's that serious. Yeah. Like it can cause that much damage, and I do not want that for you. Yeah. Um, so there's that part, rationalization. And what actually I won't want to say before we jump to the other path, the right path, is one thing that often happens in rationalization is you you get stuck in that space long enough that you can draw an arrow and you go right back to your sin. Yep. Right? You you find a way, uh, or it finds a way to reinfect your life and to repeat. And man, that cycle continues so often for guys, and they say, Well, I've I've repented. I I said I was sorry, but really what hasn't happened is uh we'll say it again, remorse. And then here's the the second thing on the right path is reliance. So this is reliance is I cannot do battle with this on my own. Yep. That's why we say every week, don't do this alone. Uh it's it's day-by-day reliance on the Lord and reliance upon others to put this sin to death. Yeah. Um, and so when you're stuck in rationalization and then you go back to your sin, I would say, hey, that's not really repentance, is because you haven't surrendered. Like you haven't with open hands said, God, yes, I feel the weight of this, but I'm choosing to now engage with it in your terms, which is uh and here's the phrase, connection over perfection. Yep. Or sometimes we say participation over per perfection. Yeah. But if I'm not approaching each day and saying, God, I feel my heart pulled towards this, um, I feel the enemy just constantly working my head. I feel overwhelmed, I feel like my body just takes over. That's why we need reliance. Yeah. Reliance on him and others.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

Yeah. And the evidence of that is that that the that right side path is relational. It's not just you by yourself, it's not isolating, it's not alienating, it's you inviting other people in. And oftentimes I I reassure people, because people always say, Well, what's the next right thing to do? What's the next right step? Which is a great question to ask, but I tweak it a little bit. It's not a what, it's a who. Ooh, that's great. It's a who can I invite into this? Who am I reaching out to? Because we're relational creatures, like we talk about all the time. So if you're trying to figure out what's my next move, answer the question, who? Who can I invite into this? Because if we don't, we'll rationalize. Well, I don't actually need to invite anybody in because that feels complicated. They might hurt me, they might reject me, they might think that I'm a terrible human being. Yeah, like all like there's always risk inherent in it. Like there's always a risk inherent in relationship. That's there. And I think that's on purpose because what you gain by going through the risk and the work is the actual reward of relationship, which is to be known and deeply loved at the same time. The other path is just like, well, that feels like a lot. And I don't want to do any of it. Yeah. So I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. And you know what happens if you keep doing what you're doing? Nothing changes.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I I was just thinking through this um actually shout out to an episode we recorded some time back with Lindsay, talking about her own story as a woman who struggled with pornography. She and I are doing this um workshop for high school students. And we talked about uh this cheesy acronym HEAL, H-E-A-L. Like, what does healing actually entail? And the first thing's honesty, uh, and again, it has to be with others, honest with you with yourself, of course, but with others. And then I think of engagement, meaning like actually doing the work, stepping into it. But then in that engagement, the A is actually advocates. So there's these people that are surrounding me, holding me up, speaking truth into my life, even when it's hard to hear. Like putting sin to death cannot happen by me just in isolation saying, Well, I'm gonna read a book on it or do a little study and even get Michael's little guide, and like I'm I'm gonna figure this out. If you're in isolation, sin will thrive. Yep, uh, it'll it'll take over. And so repentance is so tied to relationship, connection that we can't stress that enough. So here's here's the path, and when guys are on this right path of remorse, opening their eyes to seeing their sin for what it is, especially even relationally, and then lean in relationally through alliance, here's the the promise of repentance is the last R for the right path is restoration. God begins over time to cause newness of life. I think about even in Paul's letter to it's Philippians, Paul's letter to church in Philippi, he talks about like this resurrection life. Like Christ in us begins to produce a newness that's rooted and grounded because it's rooted in relationship with him and one another. Yeah. Um, whereas the left path, once you go through that repeated cycle enough where it's like, oh, I regret, I rationalize, I return to my sin, keep doing that path, eventually the last R for that road is ruin. Um scripture is clear that sin brings death. Yes, it refers to our physical death, but really in this life, sin causes a lot of death relationally, emotionally. Um you know, uh goodness, things that are are meant to be gifts, meant to be beautiful, begin to break down. And that's that just grieves our heart. Yeah. And we want to see guys move towards restoration. But I want to throw it towards you. Yeah. It's like we should name a soul care practice after it.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Tell me a little bit about the fact that repentance is not linear, like going from remorse to reliance to experiencing restoration in areas of my life. Would is that just a straight path of just okay. No. Tell me a little bit about that process.

SPEAKER_04 32:27

Yeah, it's it's a little bit of trial and error. Hmm. And that's okay. You know, one of the things that I learned years ago is that uh human beings, we learn by discovery, not dictation. Yeah. I mean, the best way that you can learn a new thing is by giving it a shot, failing, learning from the mistakes, and then trying again. Yeah. That is our educational process. That's that's how we move forward, that's how we learn, that's how we grow. That's the process of sanctification. The beauty of sanctification is that God is intimately involved in every single part of that. And he's not just leaving you in your failure, and he's not judging you in your failure and saying, You're done, you're over, you tried once, nice try, buddy, but you failed, you suck, get out. He's not doing that. He's going, Okay, what'd you learn? You failed. There's grace for that. Let's get back up and try again. Yeah. So, uh, you know, you started the conversation with this situation, and I think um that path can sort of look like that. Maybe not as frantic, but maybe a little like, okay, well, I was wasn't reliant here, but I can sure I can pick back up on that here. Okay, I wasn't quite remorse. Let me go back. Maybe I need to spend some more time in remorse, and then go. And you know, it's a little bit all over the place. Um, but rarely is it linear. So you two years, I don't know. But the point is is that God has given you the runway to figure this out, and he's intimately involved with you in that process. He's not just sort of leaving you, go, okay, figure it out, come back when you get it right. That's not how this works, yeah. Thankfully.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah, so and then what I'm hearing from you is that that's state of reliance, right? Moving from remorse into battling sin. It's it's not an event. Building reliance in our life as a posture takes time. Like we are never perfect on our reliance upon the Lord, upon others. But for those who are stepping forward into a posture of repentance, it's pursued. Reliance is pursued and and returned to.com, book a discovery call for 15 minutes. We'd love to just chat with you.

SPEAKER_04 34:47

Um I did three of those this this week. It's fantastic. You found the podcast, you reached out, we had a little chat. If that wasn't you and you're listening to this, that means it's your turn. Come on. Book it, let's talk.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Get on that phone, get in the computer, fill out that form. Follow us on socials at Nick WBuda.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

At Mike Camber with a K.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Let us know you're out there. Otherwise, as we always say, don't do this.

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For more tools, resources, and information about our coaching, check out rsdky.com. Keep showing up. Yeah, we'll catch you next time.